Since we originally published this episode in May 2024, there has been significant developments for Lyle and Erik Menendez, brothers who were convicted of killing their parents in the early 1990s. On October 24th, Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascón requested that the brothers be resentenced. We are replaying this episode in its entirety because it provides the context you need to understand how we got here. Lyle and Erik Menendez, two Beverly Hills brothers, were convicted of murdering their parents in a tabloid case that captivated the nation in the 1990s. But in recent years, they have captured the attention of a new generation, becoming unlikely social media stars despite being in prison for the last 34 years. In this episode, Susie and Jess look at the dedicated fan accounts advocating for a new trial and the new evidence that might actually free them. FOR MORE: The New Menendez Defenders (The New York Times) Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers (The New York Times) New evidence may back Menendez brothers’ sexual abuse claims. But can it free them? (The Los Angeles Time) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When Madonna performed “Like A Virgin'' at the first MTV Video Music Awards in 1984, she scandalized the audience and her own team. But she also stole the show, cementing MTV’s place in cultural history. In this episode, Susie and Jess look back at Madonna’s early years in New York, the events that led her to that stage and how she became one of pop's most enduring icons.  GUESTS: Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life FOR MORE: Madonna: Our 1985 Cover Story (Spin) Madonna’s Celebration Tour Proves She Won’t Quit (NY Times) Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1984, a relatively unknown 26-year old Madonna appeared at the first MTV Video Music Awards. Dressed like a rock and roll bride, Madonna sang “Like a Virgin.” The performance was considered so risque, so scandalous that many – including her own manager – predicted it would end her career. But far from stopping her, that moment changed Madonna’s life, transforming her from rising star to pop idol. In this week’s episode, Susie and Jess talk about that iconic performance, the rise of MTV and how together MTV and Madonna were a force that defined 80s pop culture.  GUESTS:   Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life FOR MORE: 60 Times Madonna Changed Our Culture (NY Times) Inside Madonna's Legendary Performance at the First VMAs (Rolling Stone) Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Girl dinner. Hot girl walks. Weird girls. Clean girls. Rat girls. Snail girls. Everywhere we look, it seems, a certain kind of girliness is being celebrated – from Beyonce to Barbie to Taylor Swift to TikTok. But what really is girl culture? Jess and Susie revisit a seminal photography book from the early 2000s, Lauren Greenfield’s “Girl Culture,” to ask: What does it mean when girlhood is being glorified but individual girls are more miserable than ever?     FOR MORE: The joy of communal girlhood; the agony of teen girls (by Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2024) Being 13 (By Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2023) This Is 18 (By Jessica Bennett, NYT, 2018) Girl Culture, by Lauren Greenfield (TIME, 2002) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lyle and Erik Menendez, two Beverly Hills brothers, were convicted of murdering their parents in a tabloid case that captivated the nation in the 1990s. But in recent years, they have captured the attention of a new generation, becoming unlikely social media stars despite being in prison for the last 34 years. In this episode, Susie and Jess look at the dedicated fan accounts advocating for a new trial and the new evidence that might actually free them.  FOR MORE: The New Menendez Defenders  (The New York Times) Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers  (The New York Times) New evidence may back Menendez brothers’ sexual abuse claims. But can it free them? (The Los Angeles Time) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hanging out with Monica Lewinsky for her first profile in a decade. Booking Jessica Simpson for a weight loss reveal that never happened. Searching for Casey Anthony….  and not finding her. Wondering how many members of a polycule is too many to put on an expense report (!). In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit some of their most memorable, and sometimes cringey, adventures in journalism. FOR MORE: Polyamory: The Next Sexual Revolution? (By Jessica Bennett, Newsweek, 2010) Monica Lewinsky Is Back, But This Time It’s On Her Terms (By Jessica Bennett, NY Times, 2015) Jessica Simpson Reveals Post-Baby Body on Katie Couric’s New Show (People, 2012) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She made history as the first Black Miss America, then dramatically lost her crown in a scandal that would see her branded as "the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” But Vanessa Williams did not just go away quietly, she fought back — going head to head with Penthouse, the magazine that published her photos, and the man who tricked her into taking them. In this episode, Jess and Susie chart the aftermath of that sordid episode, as well as Vanessa’s staggering comeback. Plus, Jess talks about the time she went to Miss America just a few years ago, reporting from inside the pageant, where a pageant “civil war” was brewing. FOR MORE: Books: Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood, by Margot Mifflin, and There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America, by Amy Artsinger Articles: Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’ and Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America (both New York Times, both by Jess) Listen: Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You may know her as the Grammy-nominated singer, or for playing the cunning and iconic  Wilhelmina Slater on “Ugly Betty.” But before all that, Vanessa Williams was a bright young college student from New York who would make history as the first Black Miss America, in 1984. And yet before she could complete her term, she would be dramatically dethroned — in a nude photo scandal that would ignite a torrent of racism and see her branded as “the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit the incredible making, and the staggering undoing, of the first Black Miss America. FOR MORE: Books: Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood, by Margot Mifflin, and There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America, by Amy Artsinger Articles: Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’ and Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America (both New York Times, both by Jess) Listen: Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1991, America’s sweetheart Sally Field starred in a movie about an American woman’s desperate escape from her abusive Iranian husband. For Susie, and a generation of other Iranian-American kids, this was the only representation they saw of themselves in pop culture – and it was not great. It was essentially a horror film – and the horror was Iran. In this episode, best-selling author (and fellow Iranian-American) Porochista Khakpour joins Susie to talk about what it was like growing up in the shadow of ‘Not Without My Daughter’ and its comically dark view of their homeland.  GUESTS:   Porochista Khakpour, best-selling author  FOR MORE: The Not Without My Daughter Problem: How a Sally Field Movie Became an Iranian-American Headache (New York Magazine) Iranians Moving Past Negative Depictions In Pop Culture (by Porochista Khakpour, LA Times)  Order Porochista’s book Tehrangeles See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As we revealed in part one, the 2007 Rutgers women’s basketball team was having a Cinderella season when radio host Don Imus callously dragged them into a national firestorm with a racist slur, effectively stealing their moment. But the women of Rutgers didn’t just go away quietly – they fought back, rising above the noise to tell their story. Susie and Jess are joined again by former Rutgers captain Essence Carson and Emmy-winning journalist Jemele Hill to unpack the aftermath of that sordid episode, and discuss the complexities of who gets to respond in anger when they are publicly targeted, and why. GUESTS:   Essence Carson, former WNBA star, Rutgers captain and current creative executive Jemele Hill, Emmy award-winning journalist FOR MORE: A First-Class Response to a Second-Class Put-Down (NYT, 2007) Imus: Race, Power and the Media (Newsweek, 2007) Don Imus, DJ fired for racial slur at Rutgers players, dies at 79 (ESPN, 2019) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Long before Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese were shattering records and making national headlines, there was the 2007 Rutgers team. The New Jersey players had a Cinderella season, powering their way to the Final Four in an extraordinary triumph. But instead of being celebrated, the young women were attacked – dismissed and belittled in an infamous on-air slur by the popular radio host Don Imus. In this episode, Susie and Jess revisit the moment which sparked a national firestorm – and a much-needed conversation about racism, sexism and women’s sports. They also welcome two women who were there: former Rutgers captain and WNBA star Essence Carson, and the journalist Jemele Hill, who reported on the story in real time. GUESTS:  Essence Carson, former WNBA star, Rutgers captain and current creative executive Jemele Hill, Emmy award-winning journalist FOR MORE: The Imus Fallout: Who Can Say What? (Time, 2007) Trash Talk Radio (by Gwen Ifill NYT, 2007) Take A Stand Against Indecency And Cruelty (by Jemele Hill, ESPN)  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For a certain generation of girls, the trading of lip gloss was akin to sharing secrets — there was hierarchy, and subtlety, and hidden messages all in one. In this mini episode, Jess reminisces about middle school makeup rituals and what they can tell us about female friendship, while Susie wonders how it’s possible to be so nonchalant about the spreading of germs (lol!). FOR MORE: Meghan Markle, Kate Middleton and… Lip Gloss? (by Jessica Bennett, NYT) Makeup As Meditation, Skincare As 'Girl Therapy' (by Jessica Defino, Substack) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was the iconic and irreverent magazine that shaped a generation of 90s girls, teaching them about pop culture, fashion and feminism. Sassy was accessible and relatable, willing to openly talk about taboo subjects like sex and teen suicide when nobody else would. In this episode, we chat with the founding editor and perennial cool older sister Jane Pratt about why Sassy still resonates for so many nearly 40 years later.  FOR MORE: My Totally Normal Addiction To Buying Teen Magazines (NYT, 2021) How Sassy Is Tavi Gevinson? (NYT, 2011) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You asked, we answered! In this episode, Jess & Susie take a trip down memory lane — responding to “in retrospect” moments shared by listeners (you!). From a generation named after Jordan Catalano of “My So Called Life” to Brandy and Monica’s faux-feud in “The Boy Is Mine,” here are some moments from the 90s that you can’t stop thinking about. FOR MORE: Meet Generation Catalano (Slate, 2011) Monica on 25 Years of ‘The Boy Is Mine’ (The Hollywood Reporter, 2023) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Exactly 25 years ago, the blockbuster teen comedy “American Pie” launched the term “MILF” into the stratosphere — that is, Mom I’d Like to F*ck. Jennifer Coolidge, who played Stifler’s Mom, is perhaps still the most famous MILF in America. But… where did that term really come from? Jess and Susie uncover the MILF’s true origin story and how it was shaped by the most raunchy teen sex comedy of our time. FOR MORE:  Review: The Road to Manhood, Paved in Raunchy Jokes and Pie (NYT, 1999) American Pie at 20: The Notorious Pie Scene from Every Angle (NYT, 2019)  Don’t Use This Acronym: MILF in the OED (blog post by Laurel Sutton) At the Super Bowl of Linguistics, May the Best Word Win (by Jessica, NYT, reporting from the annual linguistics convention in 2015) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

And what does that even mean? In this episode, Susie and Jess unpack how ageism has been used to diminish women for generations and their own complicated feelings about aging. FOR MORE:  I Refuse the Graceful Slide Into Cultural Irrelevance (by Jessica, NYT) Don Lemon Regrets Calling Nikki Haley ‘Past Her Prime’ (AP) Michelle Yeoh Is Right – A Woman Is Never ‘Past Her Prime’ (The Guardian) E. Jean Carroll and the Audacity of a Woman ‘Past Her Prime’ (by Jessica, NYT) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What did a generation of strivers learn about what it means to get ahead from “The Devil Wears Prada”? Was Miranda Priestly, the famed and famously demanding fashion editor at the center of the movie – in many ways the original “girlboss” – an aspirational or cautionary figure? In this episode, Susie and Jess revisit the blockbuster 2006 film and talk about their own careers and changing relationships to ambition. GUEST: Samhita Mukhopadhyay, former executive editor at Teen Vogue and author of the upcoming book, The Myth of Making It FOR MORE:  The Devil Wears Prada Oral History (Entertainment Weekly) The Demise of the Girlboss (New York Magazine) The Girlboss Has Left the Building (The Atlantic) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How do you turn the classic raunchy teen comedy on its head? Emma Seligman, writer and director of the critically acclaimed, lesbian fight club film, “Bottoms,” and the claustrophobic, indie hit, “Shiva Baby,” talks movie-making, her early aughts inspiration, queer representation on screen and how it’s changing. Guest hosted by Sharon Attia, our researcher and associate producer, who also happens to be Emma’s best friend.  GUEST:  Emma Seligman, writer-director of “Bottoms” and “Shiva Baby”  FOR MORE: Watch “Bottoms”  Watch “Shiva Baby”   Why Emma Seligman Decided to Make a Movie About a Queer Fight Club (New Yorker) The Brains Behind the New Comedy, Bottoms (New York Magazine)  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In part one, Jess and Susie revisited a famous episode of The Golden Girls, in which Blanche mistakes the word “lesbian” for “Lebanese.” (“Not ‘Lebanese,’ Blanche. Lesbian!”) Nearly 40 years later, the IKYKY of calling lesbians “Lebanese” lives on – as does the gay legacy of The Golden Girls. Jess and Susie talk to the originator of that joke about the role that The Golden Girls played – and still plays – in gay culture, as well as how that episode fits into the history of LGBTQ representation on screen. Plus: a lesbian-lebanese surprise! GUESTS: Maya Salam, culture editor at The New York Times Drew Mackie, cohost of Gayest Episode Ever FOR MORE: At Long Last, Lesbian Portrayals On Screen Are More Complex (NYT) Mean Girls’ Janice Ian Was a Lesbian (After Ellen) Thank You for Being a Friend: A Gay Golden Girls History (Frontiers) Blanche’s Brother is a Homo, & More Gay GG Moments (Gayest Episode Ever) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Not ‘Lebanese,’ Blanche. Lesbian!” The line originated on The Golden Girls in 1986, after a lesbian friend of Dorothy’s came to visit and Blanche mistook her for “Lebanese.” A decade later, Ellen DeGeneres riffed on that same play on words, coming out as “Lebanese” on the Rosie O’Donnell Show shortly before publicly coming out. “Lebanese” lesbians would go on to appear in Mean Girls, on Glee, and even RuPaul’s Drag Race. In this episode, Jess and Susie get to the bottom of what made that joke so enduring… and talk to an actual Lebanese lesbian about what it meant to her. GUESTS: Maya Salam, culture editor at The New York Times Drew Mackie, cohost of the Gayest Episode Ever podcast FOR MORE: Dorothy’s Friend is a Lesbian (Gayest Episode Ever) The Very Slow Rise of Lesbianism On Screen (Maya Salam, NYT) In 1986, Golden Girls Created the Most Enduring Lesbian Joke on TV (Autostraddle) Blanche’s Brother is a Homo, and More Gay Golden Girls’ Moments (Gayest Episode Ever) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Get ready for more In Retrospect! From the dramatic dethroning of the first Black Miss America to the enduring legacy of four caftan loving Golden Girls, we’ve put together a whole new batch of episodes about the retro pop culture we all love – and love to pick apart. So dig up your leg warmers and break out the Aquanet, season 2 drops next week!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was an era bookended by Anita Hill and Monica Lewinsky. It gave us MTV’s “boxers or briefs,” popularized the MILF, and spawned the first-ever “sex tape.” But what did 90s culture really teach us about love and sex? Jess is joined by sex educator and bestselling author Emily Nagoski, whose new book, Come Together, is out this month.   Guests: Emily Nagoski, sex educator and bestselling author  Further reading: She wrote a bestseller about sex. Then her own sex life fell apart. (NY Times) Come Together by Emily Nagoski (her new book) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you’re looking for a little comfort this holiday season, look no further than a classic Hallmark Christmas movie. There you’ll find an uncomplicated world of quaint small towns covered in snow, magical family moments with hot cocoa and single girls looking for love in all the right places. Why are these films so popular despite their somewhat retrograde ideas about what everybody wants? In this special holiday episode, Susie will explain to Jess why she watches these sweet, simple movies despite - or maybe because of - how silly they often seem. In Retrospect is taking a little break for the holidays. Thank you for listening to our first season and look for new episodes starting Feb. 2, 2024! FOR MORE: How Hallmark Took Over Cable Television (The New Yorker, 2019) Nobody Told Hallmark Channel That Cable Is Dead (New York Magazine, 2023) Christmas Under Wraps Trailer (Hallmark Channel/YouTube, 2014) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Why didn’t she fight back? Why did she stay? For as long as abuse and sexual violence have existed, there have been questions about how victims are “supposed” to act in their aftermath. In our last episode, we explored the public vilification of Robin Givens but there was more to say. This week, Susie and Jess chart our national obsession with “perfect” victims — and why that obsession persists. Plus, Jess talks about  E. Jean Carroll’s assault case against Donald Trump, which she covered for the Times. FOR MORE:  Why Didn’t She Scream? And Other Questions Not to Ask a Rape Accuser (New York Times, 2023) What People Misunderstand About Rape (New York Times, 2023) Robin Givens on Domestic Violence: 'Why I Stayed' (Time, 2014) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Robin Givens’ honesty about her violent marriage to Mike Tyson led to a nasty backlash. In the aftermath of that explosive interview with Barbara Walters, Givens was portrayed as an evil gold digger who, as the tabloids put it, had become the “most hated woman in America.” But Givens endured, filing for divorce and rebuilding her life despite the vitriol. In this episode, Susie and Jess examine that cruel public reaction, what it teaches us about America’s misunderstanding of domestic violence at that time and the role that race played in it all. Guest: Salamishah Tillet, Pulitzer Prize-winning critic and professor of Africana Studies and Creative Writing at Rutgers University FOR MORE: ‘Boomerang’ at 30: Think of It as the Robin Givens Rom-Com (New York Times, 2022) Robin Givens on Domestic Violence: 'Why I Stayed' (Time, 2014) Ms. Magazine Cover: Battered Wives (1976) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1988, the actress Robin Givens and her husband Mike Tyson, the heavyweight champion of the world, gave a television interview to Barbara Walters addressing persistent tabloid rumors that their marriage was violent. In a stunningly honest moment, Givens admitted, with Tyson by her side, that she was tormented by her husband's physical abuse. In this episode, Susie and Jess revisit that interview, the vicious public response and what it revealed about what it means to be a victim in America. FOR MORE: Mike Tyson And Robin Givens Are Interviewed Amid Rumors (ABC News) Robin's Sad Song (People, 1988) The Woman America Loves To Hate (Sun Sentinel, 1988) Through the Storm: Robin Givens (Essence, 2020) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The men in the office called them “Dollies,” and they had had enough. In 1970, 46 women who were not allowed to be writers sued Newsweek magazine for gender discrimination – paving the way for generations of women journalists to follow. Jess reflects on discovering that story when she was a young staffer at Newsweek four decades later, and how it led to her first book, Feminist Fight Club, which was inspired by those women. Plus, Susie asks what’s changed for women reporters today.  FOR MORE:  Are We There Yet? Forty Years Later, Revisiting a Landmark Sex Discrimination Suit (Jessica Bennett, Jesse Ellison and Sarah Ball, Newsweek, 2012) The Good Girls Revolt: How the Women of Newsweek Sued their Bosses and Changed the Workplace (Book by Lynn Povich) Good Girls Revolt (Amazon TV series based on the book) Feminist Fight Club: A Survival Manual for a Sexist Workplace (Book by Jessica Bennett) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part 1, Jess and Susie dissected how a salacious Newsweek report about women’s likelihood of getting married sparked a national panic. Here they share their own views on marriage – and unpack what we’d make of that silly story today. (If you haven’t listened to Pt 1, we recommend starting there!) Guests: Sharon Attia, associate producer for IN RETROSPECT and resident young millennial FOR MORE: Revisiting Newsweek’s ‘More Likely To Be Killed By a Terrorist Than Marry’ Story (The Atlantic, 2016) ‘I Don’t’: The Case Against Marriage (Jessica Bennett and Jesse Ellison, Newsweek, 2010) Modern Love: Missing the Love Boat (Jessica Bennett, NY Times, 2012) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was a 1986 cover story with a claim that spread like wildfire: A single woman over 40 was “more likely to be killed by a terrorist” than to get married. Jess and Susie unravel the origin of that salacious report — later retracted — and dissect how such a line went from reporter’s notebook to reference point in films such as “Sleepless in Seattle” and “When Harry Met Sally.” Plus: How that Newsweek story inspired Susan Faludi to write her blockbuster feminist classic, Backlash. Guests: E. Jean Carroll, journalist, longtime Elle advice columnist and author of “What Do We Need Men For?”  Susan Douglas, professor of media studies at the University of Michigan and author of “Enlightened Sexism” FOR MORE: Single, Female, and Desperate No More (NY Times, 2006) Revisiting Newsweek’s ‘More Likely To Be Killed By a Terrorist’ Story (The Atlantic, 2016) Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women by Susan Faludi (1991) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A recent Republican debate stirred up an age-old discussion about high heels: Who is allowed to wear them, how high they can be, and what they can tell us about gender politics in 2023. In this episode, Jess & Susie unravel the long history of high-heeled shoes (originally designed for men!) and how they’ve been used as a political insult and weapon. FOR MORE: Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, and Those Stilettos (Jessica Bennett, The New York Times) Penis Politics, a podcast from The Waves (Slate) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mistakes? We’ve made a few. In the spirit of IN RETROSPECT, Susie and Jess share some of their professional regrets—from Susie’s season working on the reality show “Wife Swap” to a sexual harassment story Jess still thinks about. FOR MORE: Heidi Mae’s TikTok about appearing on "Wife Swap" See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Amy Fisher would go to prison for shooting Mary Jo Buttafuoco, the wife of her much older “boyfriend” Joey – but that wouldn’t be the end of the story. The media frenzy surrounding her would continue, and spawn three TV movies about her infamous crime. In this episode, Susie and Jess delve into Amy’s attempts to move on, where she is today, and dissect how that trope – the “lolita” – is used to paint girls as precocious and seductive. Guests: Amy Pagnozzi, former and longtime New York Post columnist who covered the Amy Fisher trial FOR MORE: Which of Those Three Amy Fisher TV Movies Was the Best—And Which Was the Trashiest? (Esquire, 2016) The troubling legacy of the Lolita story, 60 years on (BBC, 2022) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1992, Amy Fisher, a teen girl from Long Island became a tabloid sensation almost overnight – when she shot Mary Jo Buttafuoco, the wife of her much older “boyfriend” Joey Buttafuoco. Within days, the New York Daily News would splash a picture of Amy across its front page with a headline that would follow her forever: The Long Island Lolita. In this episode, Susie and Jess interrogate the way Amy Fisher was covered and examine why her story gripped the nation. Guests: Amy Pagnozzi, former and longtime New York Post columnist who covered the Amy Fisher trial FOR MORE: Long Island Lolita (Daily News, 1992) Treachery in the Suburbs (People, 1992) Inside Edition Flashback: Amy Fisher Sentencing (YouTube) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The princess of pop's much anticipated memoir, “The Woman In Me,” is finally out. This week, Jess and Susie speed-read it and share their thoughts on the woman whose life is perhaps the ultimate case of "in retrospect."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you understand U.S. cultural history without understanding Axe Body Spray? Listener, you cannot. In this mini-episode, Jess and Susie trace the scent that infiltrated school hallways and telegraphed wannabe masculinity for a generation of Y2K kids. Featuring a special appearance by Jess’s husband.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So Pacey lost his virginity to his high school English teacher. But what do we… call that? Was it a tryst? An affair? An assault? Jess & Susie dive into the linguistic acrobatics of how America talked about statutory rape in the 90s – and delve into the the true story that was playing out at the time, that of Seattle teacher (and convicted rapist) Mary Kay Letourneau. Guests: Rosie Bancroft, Jess’s middle school pal and current middle school mental health counselor FOR MORE: How the Media Turned Child Rape Into a ‘Tryst’ (Rolling Stone) America’s confused obsession with Mary Kay Letourneau (Washington Post) ‘In Retrospect’ – The Playlist (Aren’t you dying to hear the Dawson’s theme song?) (Spotify) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was 1998 and teenage Jessica was crammed onto the couch in the basement of a friend’s house in Seattle, swooning over the hot-and-heavy “love affair” between Pacey and Tamara on “Dawson’s Creek.” The only thing: Pacey was 15, and Tamara – aka Miss Jacobs – was his 38-year-old high school English teacher. Ew? Guests: Rosie Bancroft, Jess’s middle school pal and current middle school mental health counselor FOR MORE: ‘Dawson’s Creek’ at 20: Inside the Teen Drama’s Deepest Secrets (Hollywood Reporter) Dawson’s Creek and That Troubling Storyline (Medium) ‘In Retrospect’ – The Playlist (Aren’t you dying to hear the Dawson’s theme song?) (Spotify) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s “problematic.” In this mini episode, Jess rants about her dislike of this overly simplistic label (used to describe everything from people to paint colors), and Susie asks her why, if that’s the case, she can’t seem to stop using it. FOR MORE: If Everything Is ‘Trauma,’ Is Anything? (NY Times) I Was Wrong About Trigger Warnings (The Atlantic)  What If Calling People Out, We Called Them In? (NY Times) The Problem With the Word 'Problematic’ (The Atlantic) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In 1988, Oprah Winfrey revealed on her hugely popular talk show that she’d shed 67 pounds, which she illustrated to her audience by wheeling out a little red wagon full of exactly that much animal fat. That show, the highest-rated of her 25-year run, would kickstart a cycle of speculation about this wildly successful woman’s body that would endure for decades. In this episode, Susie and Jess explore why Oprah’s weight struggles have been the subject of so much fascination, her recent special that touches on that scrutiny, the rise of Ozempic and the pressure women feel to be perfect. FOR MORE: Oprah Daily’s The State of Weight Special (Oprah Daily) Making Oprah podcast (WBEZ) From the Archives: Oprah Winfrey Cover Story (Vogue) Losing It in the Anti-Dieting Age (New York Times Magazine) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When lifeguard CJ Parker, played by Pamela Anderson, ran in slow-mo down a sandy California beach in her iconic cherry red swimsuit — you know the one, low in the front, hiiiiiigh on the sides — she didn’t just turn “Baywatch” into the number-one TV show in America, she became the enduring symbol of 90s sexuality. In this episode, Jess and Susie trace that swimsuit’s surprising history — and its ripple effects. Guests: Pamela Anderson, actor, activist and author  Susan Douglas, professor of media studies at the University of Michigan and author of “Enlightened Sexism” FOR MORE: Pamela Anderson Doesn’t Need Your Redemption. She’s Just Fine. (NY Times) How Baywatch Went from Early Belly Flop to the Big Screen (NY Times) Pamela: A Love Story (Netflix) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett met a decade ago in a newsroom, and have gone on to hold some of the most prestigious jobs in journalism. But they’re also pop culture obsessives and trash-TV addicts who can spend hours going down any rabbit hole. They often unravel cultural moments together, over late-night phone calls and edibles. Now you get to listen, too. Time to meet your hosts (hi!). FOR MORE: Enemies of the People: Trump and the Political Press (Susie’s film)  Feminist Fight Club: A Survival Manual for a Sexist Workplace and This Is 18 (Jess’s books) Monica Lewinsky Is Back, But This Time It’s On Her Terms (NY Times) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What did a generation of young women—and men—learn about sex and relationships when the most iconic romance on TV’s most popular soap opera “General Hospital” began with a rape? Susie and Jess unravel the story of Luke and Laura, the beloved couple from the longest running soap of all time, whose wedding was such a huge cultural moment that it drew more viewers than an actual royal wedding (twice). CW: This episode contains discussion of sexual violence. Guests:  Cindi Leive, co-founder of The Meteor, former editor-in-chief of Glamour and “General Hospital” superfan Danielle Thompson, our soap opera-obsessed pal who knows A LOT about the history of soaps FOR MORE: Why Are College Kids in a Lather Over TV Soap Operas? (NYTimes) The Complex, Contradictory History of the American Soap Opera (Jezebel) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Do you have a piece of pop culture from your past that, looking back, makes you cringe? We sure do. Each week on IN RETROSPECT, we’ll revisit a cultural moment from the 80s and 90s that shaped us — and probably you — to try to understand what it taught us about the world, and our place in it. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.